When it comes to disputes on the job, documentation is the best protection. That’s what we’re talking about this week with special guest Chad Gill. He’s a polished concrete contractor who also created an app to help teams document their jobs. We sat down with him to find out why documentation is important and how software can help you do it right.
Topics we cover include:
- Real examples of when documentation protected our companies from a loss
- How a system for documentation can improve your relationship with your bond agent
- What additional pain points software like Chad’s can address
- How to best implement new software in your company
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[00:00:00] Rob Williams: Welcome to the Contractor Success Forum. Today, we have Chad Gill with us, and we are the Contractor Success Forum, discussing financial strategies for running a more profitable, successful construction business.
[00:00:21] Rob Williams: And our three long-term construction industry professionals: in one corner, we have Stephen Brown with McDaniel-Whitley bonding and insurance company.
And then the other corner we have Wade Carpenter with Carpenter and Company, CPAs. Does that mean I’m the ref in the center? I’m Rob Williams, IronGate Entrepreneurial Support Systems, driving profit in your businesses. And Wade, tell us who our guest is today.
[00:00:49] Wade Carpenter: Well, we’re fortunate to have Chad Gill. He’s the president of Concreate He’s a concrete polishing contractor in Virginia. And he’s also created some software I really want to talk about, that kind of goes along with some of those experiences in the construction industry.
He’s actually, was trained as a mechanical engineer at Virginia Military Institute. He was a robotics and tooling design engineer. And I don’t even know what manipulators are, but he created manipulators for steam generators and he got a couple of machine design patents.
And so in 2002, about 20 years ago, he founded Concreate, that does really pretty polished concrete stuff. And he’s become the president of the Concrete Polishing Association of America. And he’s also the CEO of Workforce Recon which is part of the subject of the software we’re talking about today. We recently did a show on documenting projects and some things that can go wrong with a project and how you can protect yourself.
So, Chad, welcome.
[00:01:56] Chad Gill: Hey thanks a lot. I love the start of the show there. It gave me a little bit of a goosebump thing. At VMI, we were all required to take boxing class. And the last time they announced two fighters and I was involved in it that began nine minutes of hell on earth. And in the second round I found out my opponent was ambidextrous.
So yeah. Let’s hope goes better.
[00:02:16] Rob Williams: Oh, yeah. I see you went to VMI. Mike Michalowicz, with our Profit First stuff was a Virginia tech guy. So you may, I don’t know if that means you’re going to drop everything now or…
[00:02:27] Chad Gill: Not everybody can go to VMI and they have to let some go to…
[00:02:30] Rob Williams: Yeah.
[00:02:32] Chad Gill: It’s part of being elite and easy to get into, I guess. VMI is anyway.
[00:02:37] Rob Williams: Yeah. That boxing thing, I actually boxed at Golden Gloves for awhile. And I did, I worked out all summer. I hit the bags and man, I got in the ring and my buddy that got me down there, he got me in there and I realized really quickly that I don’t like sports where I get hit in the face. So, it wasn’t, it ruined the whole thing for me, so– it turned out that guy, he actually won a gold medal in the Olympics, that we got in there. So
[00:03:05] Chad Gill: And he helped and you helped get him there. And
[00:03:07] Rob Williams: I had– my face, my nose, my pummeled face helped him get there. Things you didn’t know about me.
[00:03:16] Chad Gill: Things I try to hide about myself. But yeah, so that’s what we do. We do concrete polishing. It was a natural progression from nuclear machine design and tooling to jump right into concrete polishing. I’m not even sure how that happened, but it’s where I’m at. And then, yeah, we started I dunno, I guess probably seven or eight years ago started using the Workforce Recon to create some sort of ability to document processes.
My background is different than a lot of what the guys who are, who I work with, contractors and stuff like that in general. Hardworking guys, great guys, really good at their trade. But you know, more and more, we are in a litigious world where you have to document what you do. You have to be able to prove it seven ways from Sunday. And then if you do all of that, you should be able to get 90% of your money, 50% of the time. That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s the nature of contracting these days, which is frustrating. And that was the genesis, and the reason for building it was to protect subcontractors and also to help them coordinate and communicate with with field labor.
We looked around a lot. There’s lots of great programs. There are programs out there that are better than mine. But the, but they’re very intricate. And so ours is tailored towards small contractors that don’t, they, they can’t have somebody dedicated to a field trailer doing nothing but filling out or working on a computer.
So it’s a lot of process driven, lot of checklist manifesto type of work, that’s the idea. Because our target market is a guy who, English may be a second language, and and is not, computer savvy, but if you can’t use a phone these days, I don’t know how you’re getting around.
So we can find guys with no driver’s license and all kinds of stuff, but they’ll know how to use Facebook and Twitter. And that’s kind of the basis behind it, the way ours operates.
[00:04:57] Wade Carpenter: I’ve gotten to know Chad a little bit. He became one of our accounting back office packages, what 3, 4, 5 months ago? I’m not sure how long now. But I know at one point he had told me a story. I know Stephen and I had talked about some of these woes that we’ve heard from our contractors about getting hit with back charges and, litigation, that kind of stuff. But I remember you told me a story about a hotel that–
[00:05:22] Chad Gill: Yeah,
[00:05:23] Wade Carpenter: You turned a bad situation in a win for you. Can you relate that to us?
[00:05:28] Chad Gill: Oh yeah. It’s a classic contracting fairytale. So, we do a job. We Polish the concrete floor in a beachfront hotel that they were trying to open a new restaurant and stuff like that in, and we go in this floor and we go in pretty early in the process, typically. We complete our work. We document it.
My guys have to take at least six photos a day of anything in the area. I don’t even care what they take pictures of. But that is just the randoms shots. We’re going to gather a lot of data about that job site and it should be about our work. That’s the goal. And they’re documented, date and timestamped.
It’s done, you know, government level security. It’s not a time or day stamp that we can change. It pulls GPS location of where you are when you do it. You got a lot of data in the metadata of that photo, plus any comments they put.
So we leave, it’s maybe two or three months later, and we’re getting close to the beginning of the season for beach goers.
And we got a call from a superintendent. He calls us, says, Hey, Chad, I need to go ahead and schedule guys to come back, fix that place in the floor. I go to him, what are you talking about? He goes, yeah, remember when I talked to your guy and he had a green shirt and he was here and I talked to him and he said, yeah, yeah. We always come back at the end and we’ll fix little things like this, but there’s this place he goes, frankly, I can’t even believe you guys left it this way, but he assured me everything was fine. And that was going to be all right.
He goes, but they really need to do it. And you got to do it this weekend. And so he’s calling me on a Thursday, wants us to be there on a Friday, holiday weekend. Going through the night and this will be about three days worth of work. And I said, tell you, what, can you send me a picture of this floor area that you’re talking about? He goes, yeah, I’ll send you a picture. You’re going to be surprised your people even did this. So he sends me a picture, the floor is in front of a brick wall and the floor, we do polished concrete. So it’s supposed to be smooth, shiny, beautiful. And and so he sent me a picture and this floor looks like it’s just been destroyed. It’s been just, beat it’s pitted, it’s hammered, the color’s gone. I’m like, I don’t, there’s no way my guys would do that. So I go back through our, through our feed, and every job has a photo feed, what we call chatter in it. And in there, I can find– I scroll through and back far enough, and damn if I don’t have a photo that is almost the same position that the guy was standing in when he took his photo. In front of this brick wall is a perfectly smooth, perfectly polished– I’m not gonna say perfectly polished. Well-polished concrete floor in front of this brick wall. And in the comments of it, my guy typed in, you know, superintendent says guys coming to clean brick next week. I reminded him that acid will damage the floor.
He said, quote unquote, I got this. So I screenshot that conversation, that photo the dates, timestamp and shoot it back to him and that, and what was going to be me running guys 24 hours for three days, or whatever it was going to take– because the job sitewas good ways from us through the weekend and my cost, turned into about a $15,000 change order.
Some of that was because I was angry. Some of it was because it was going to be the true cost. And so I sent the photo and the change order along with it and said, I think this is what you’re talking about. And so his response was, you know, it must’ve been the plumber I was talking to. I don’t know anything, but I will tell you that in contracting our go-to is the plumber.
I would hate to be a plumber. If you have a plumber listening to this, don’t call me. I didn’t start this, but I am definitely adding to it. But yeah, so that turned into a thing of, you know, now we go, we fix it. We get paid. And, and that is huge. And this happens time and time again, whether we find, we get somewhere and they’re like, hey, your guys cracked the driveway. Your guys broke a door, broke a window. One of my favorites was a superintendent said I’ve been here all day. I’m here. I get here at six in the morning. I don’t leave until eight o’clock at night. I don’t even go to the bathroom. I just absorb it. He’s like I don’t eat. I don’t sleep. He goes and I haven’t seen your guys clean this for not one time. And I said, well, that’s funny. I scroll through the thing and I sent him three pictures of my guys on three different days, running an auto scrub around the floor and damn if he isn’t in then the background on one of the photos!
[00:09:30] Stephen Brown: Yeah.
[00:09:31] Chad Gill: Don’t know how you missed it, maybe youhaven’t seen one of my guys, but you’ve definitely seen a guy on an auto scrubber and he does work for me.
So these things make those companies, it gets hard to argue with a photo. And it’s hard to argue when you have that kind of backup. And what I’ve found is if you have that degree of it, it’s kind of like being tall and fit and athletic. You don’t want to fight that guy. Not because, he’s good at fighting, but because he’s tall and fit and athletic so you infer he is.
So if you show up with good photos, good data, good documentation, they’re going to find somebody else to take advantage of. And so you just proved yourself as a harder target. And that, that is a lot of deterrent for general contractors, or just, guys who are just looking to find an extra way to do it.
And I’m not, not everybody’s nefarious. I don’t mean it that way. But it is something that you have to protect yourself against in contracting if you want to be profitable or even survive.
[00:10:20] Wade Carpenter: Stephen, have you seen, I know you’ve seen several stories like that, where contractors are caught with their pants down and don’t have any documentation?
[00:10:29] Stephen Brown: Sure. It happens all the time. And, I see it every day too. And those kind of stories are great. You know, they have a happy ending, Chad. You had the cameras on site. So much of what we end up doing, especially on the bonding side with payment bond claims is just trying to recreate who did what, when, where, and why. It’s just a waste of time. It’s a waste of money and you’ve got lawyers and you’ve got lost productivity. You just can’t work without the right documentation. And we talk about it all the time. And you know, on top of that, you’ve got your workers you have to manage and keep an eye on.
Yesterday, Chad, one of our concrete contractor buddies was telling us that a guy came in to apply for a job, showed him his social security card. And the number was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8.
[00:11:23] Chad Gill: I know that guy!
[00:11:25] Stephen Brown: Yeah, true story.
So, you know, It’s always something. It’s always something in the construction business, and anything you can do to manage it a little bit better, I thought your analogy about deciding what, what fights you want to have, I call it, what ditch do you want to die in?
That’s, that’s the same kind of analogy. Would you tell us a little bit more about how you set up a job to document this stuff and, and again, what your, what your software can do to help?
[00:11:52] Chad Gill: Yeah, it’s funny. We started out with the effort of, I wanted my guys to arrive on a job and know what they were there to do. So we create locations on our part. So when we build out a job, or our prior PM builds a job, and let’s say, we’re going to do, like a–a restaurant. And so in the main flooring area, we’re going to do a five step polishing process and then in the men’s and women’s bathrooms, we’re going to do an apoxy floor.
So when you do an apoxy floor, we’re going to prep it. We’ve got processes that we do. So we’re going to prep it. We’re going to prime it, we’re going to put the body coat and the top coat. So four steps. So we would add those processes to that location. And then in the field, our guys, if they go, they pull up the job and on the job, it says locations, they tap the location, you can see the bathroom, you tap bathroom and it shows the four steps you need to do. And then as they complete those steps, they mark them off as having them complete.
Now our software back in, in the office, it knows how much we’re charging, let’s say we’re charging $6 a square foot for that bathroom floor. It knows that the prep is worth a dollar 50. The prime is worth a dollar 50. The body coat is worth– let’s just say they’re all a dollar 50, cause we’re gonna need this to add up. That’s that engineering degree kicking in now. So let’s say each one’s worth a dollar. So every time they complete a step, I know a dollar 50 times the size of the room. I know that we’ve done that much billable work that day. And they know what they’re supposed to be doing. And I know where I am on the job. Then they’re taking pictures, they’re showing me the primer. And what’s cool is when they take a photo and they put it in a little chatter feed, they, it’s not just the photo. They can comment on a photo. And then I can comment back on that photo, it’s like, hey, here’s the floor drain. The wax ring is still here. I took it up, those kinds of things. So you know exactly what happened if there’s any questions.
What’s also nice about that is we don’t have to do a lot of AIA billing. So, we ran into a scenario where a guy stopped a job and he said your schedule of values is polished concrete. And so, we did 50,000 square feet of polished concrete. Well, we had like the last two steps to do on 50,000 square feet, but the schedule of values in his mind was polished concrete.
So let’s say the burn, the building burned down or whatever happened. And we wanted to get paid for the work that we had done. You would only get paid by contract on completed items and your scheduled values. So I could go back and then prove, we’ve done five out of seven steps and each step is worth this amount of money based on our quote and our skills, our values. So I can tell you how much money I’ve actually put in or am deserving on this job.
And it’s little things like that. And, justifying you’re just even, not in a tragedy, but in a regular, you know, AIA billing situation where like I’m 37% complete. Well, I feel like you’re only 25% complete. That’s great. I know you’re operating on a feeling. Me, I’ve got this documentation telling you exactly where I’m at. And then we ended up selling probably somewhere around 26%. You still don’t win all the fights, but you do build that situation where you’re in a better position to say, I really do know where I am. I know what I’m doing.
And my guys know what they’re suppose to do. So every location you’re supposed to do is in the software. Every step you’re supposed to do is in the software. So and it’s just sitting on the phone. You know, it looks like they’re on Facebook. Sometimes they may be on Facebook, but mostly they’re on our system.
[00:15:15] Stephen Brown: And you’re building up credibility, with the owner and their reps. One thing that we talked about in one of our podcasts was the fact that you got to communicate to the owner that you just want to build. And you expect to be paid for the work that you do. If you want the job done fast and you want it done right, just let us build. But you gotta pay us in order to make things go smoothly. And that’s your, that’s your job.
[00:15:42] Chad Gill: Yeah. We’ve had situations even where the general contractor will come to us and say, hey, I know you guys document a lot. Do you happen to have photos of this? And we’ll go back and look and find, and it’s something about the masonry guy or the sheet rock guy, somebody who was around us. And they’re trying to get a timeline of what happened and they know that we have dated stuff.
And it also is reassurance to an owner whose superintendent may have missed something that you did. And he was like, hey man, you guys, I don’t think they ever primed it. Put our body coat down and all that kind of stuff. And he’s like, I don’t think it did it. You’re going to have to prove and all that kind stuff like, well, hang on, here’s some photographs. We definitely did it. We can’t fake this, and actually this is your footprint where you walked in and I think you may recall that.
But you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s things like that. It’s, it’s a lot of intangibles. But like you said, that go towards building that goodwill, and a little bit of an aura of, hey, this is, he’s not going to say it because he can back it up. So if he says it, they’re going to support it and those kind of things. It’s great. It’s, it’s, I couldn’t run the company without it.
[00:16:39] Stephen Brown: So how did you get involved, getting this software going? For your own business first, and then you wanted to share it with others?
[00:16:48] Chad Gill: Yeah, it was the classic– what is it? The desperation is the mother of all invention? You know, you’re running a company and you’re hiring people and they’re in the field and you’re like, man, how in the world am I gonna figure out what I’m doing?
And a ton of mistakes. Like I related to the guys I’m talking to. I was like, look, man, I’m just a few years further down the road, you know, and I’m getting old enough now where that distance is getting pretty far. And I’m like, look, if I can lean back and say, don’t step in that pothole, because you know, I’ve been there. You, you go find new potholes. There’s no reason to step, but if you do step in that one, grab my shoe – it’s still in there.
But you know, it’s being able to lean back and say that. And then, so for me, it was a matter of, okay, well, I like software. I understand it. I did some coding when I was in, in college. Which was so long ago that it’s not even coding now. I don’t even think it matters, but.
And then I did everything wrong. Like if you’ve ever read the book, Lean Startup. Yeah. I am the case of how not to do it. Like I did like super fat, slow down. I didn’t do lean startup. I wish I had. And so it took me about seven years. We built it on one platform. And then a friend of mine, another trade contractor, he saw it and he said, man, what are you doing?
I showed him. He’s like, that’s great. I wanna use that. And so we did that. And then about three of us were on the system and it overloaded that platform. And so I was like, okay, well, I started on this super cheap, inexpensive, startup platform, I was like I don’t want to make that mistake again.So I moved over to the salesforce.com or what they call force.com platform.
So you went from nobody to the 800 pound gorilla. But that’s great because it gives us, one, we integrate with everything that’s on the Salesforce platform. You don’t have to have Salesforce to run it, but we have Salesforce’s background, their security, their– you know, we, there’s a lot of development we don’t have to do.
I mean, I’m not even that really good at software. But it’s um, it is the, it’s the idea that we kind of take advantage of standing on their shoulders, with their support and their system. And then we are really just about the UI, the user interface, how we can talk to the guys.
And that’s always kind of in my niche is I could, I’m pretty good technical. I’m pretty good socially, I’m not your normal engineer, I guess. And so for me, I can go and talk to my field, guys, get some feedback and then convey that to developers, and then we build a product that works for us.
But yeah, the short answer is I did not do it the smart, correct, or profitable way. This is about profitable contractor, sometimes I’m a profitable contractor. Profitable software developer, I did not get called for that podcast.
[00:19:08] Wade Carpenter: When you first talked to me about this, I’ve got several clients that have asked for something to that effect. And I know we recently had Morrelle McCrary on our podcast, the IT guy, and we’ve got a couple of mutual clients in the construction industry and they were asking for this very thing. They were trying to develop something with like uploading stuff to Dropbox on steroids and stuff like that. And it’s never really worked. So.
[00:19:37] Chad Gill: We did learn we, we try and roll this out several times to friends and stuff like that, and I always use my dad as my target market customer. My dad is a great guy. He’s fantastic, but like, he’s actually staying with us right now while he’s recovering from an injury.
But I gave him my iPad and introduced him to Ted Lasso, and he’s like, well, this is the best movie ever. And I’m like, okay, you’re not super tech savvy dad, and this is not a movie. But he is like, he’s reliving his teenage years. Like he comes in my house, he picks up my iPad and eats our food and then goes and takes a nap. I’m like, what? That’s what I’m gonna do to my kids, but I don’t appreciate it being done to me.
But, um, But you know, like what you’re saying, Wade is, we have to really calm contractors down because when they do connect with us, typically, they’re like, I want to fix all these problems. I want to have everything that you’ve got running on, what the full kit and caboodle. And that’s not a good way to start. What we tell them is let’s pick your biggest pain point. Is it, is it clocking in people? We do GPS-verified clocking in and clocking out. You can save tons of money because when you’ve got a crew of six and there, you got five crews and they all clock in at seven o’clock and they really weren’t there until 7:13, that’s a lot of money. That’ll pay for the software in a heartbeat.
But then you’re like, okay, what’s your biggest pain point? Okay. Well, I want a document with photos and I want to have job details. I want to have a map. Okay. Let’s take the top three. Let’s get those really nailed down. And then let’s move to the next thing that you want. And the next thing you want.
And we’re contractors, we’re impatient, we’re always late. We’re, you know, our five minutes could be five days. It’s tough to tell them, hey man, we can fix a lot of problems, but let’s do them one at a time. And that’s been what we’ve found has made the most successful rollout to people.
And it decreases the frustration over the long run, but, a lot of guys are, look, if I’m paying this much per month, I want every feature available. And like, yeah, that’s great, but that’s not going to do anything for you. You’re just going to be angry, and a month from now, you’re going to quit. What we’re going to do is get you on, just fix the simple problems first, the low hanging fruit, and and then go forward.
[00:21:37] Stephen Brown: That’s one thing that I see. Contractors getting excited about an “everything” software platform. And they invest a ton of money in it and then the support in getting their team on board for implementing it is an absolute nightmare.
[00:21:53] Chad Gill: Yeah. If women shopped for husbands the way contractors shop for software, nobody would get married, man, because, you gotta, you gotta pick something that has problems you can deal with like my wife did, and then train us out of it.
But yeah, the software you gotta say, what is my biggest pain point? What’s, what’s my quickest return on investment? And return on investment doesn’t have to be money. For me, our crew was super frustrated because they’re trying to find the job site, and there’s no photo of what the building looks like. Well, hell, my salesman was there. You know, we’ve got a GPS map of where it gets to now, here’s the picture of the loading dock.
Just taking that frustration out and you don’t have your guy riding around in your box truck for 40 minutes, trying to find the entrance to the gate, that sets your job up better on your first day, when your guys get there. And our software won’t make you on time, but at least remove some of the reasons you didn’t. It won’t keep your guys from clocking in at Wawa, but at least you’ll know they did.
And it’s not a Big Brother thing. I try to explain to my guys, like the pictures are not here to catch you. They’re here to protect you. This shows that that door was already broken when you got there. This shows that the concrete was damaged. This shows that the guys are in your way. You know, Because when I call a guy, a superintendent I’ve called one and said, Hey, my guys are standing in there to do the work, and you said I was going to be the only one working on the floor and you’ve got guys everywhere. He goes, no, those guys are working on the ceiling. I’m like, can they hover? Because we need the floor, man. And when I get a photo that shows that and then I can document it–
And again, could we charge a delay charge on that? Absolutely. Would it be well within our rights as a contractor? Absolutely. But what that photo does is it provides that kind of backup of, hey, I’m doing you a solid, so make sure you remember this, because I have documented it. Almost like no charge change orders and you’re just like, look, I just want to document that I’m letting this go, but at some point I’m going to not, and I’m just going to say, look, we did it four times, now I’m gonna charge you.
[00:23:52] Stephen Brown: Right. And Chad, not just making sure that the job’s done right, but I’m an insurance agent too, so it kind of goes without saying, but contractors need to know this. If you’re documenting your work with a camera, that’s exactly what your insurance underwriters want you to be doing. They want to have proof.
I can’t tell you how many times a photograph as just like you said, saved a nasty situation. And now you just have to tell your agent, hey, I’ve got the software and this is what it does. And I want you to make sure our underwriter knows about it.
[00:24:24] Chad Gill: Yeah. It’s, it is surprising me because um, some of our biggest advocates for this are construction attornies. I was in a lawsuit and the guy came back and he’s like, hey, do you have any pictures of what you’re doing? I was like, well, I have 690. And he said, seriously? I was like, oh yeah, for sure. That changes your whole settlement negotiation and stuff like that. When you can just say, yeah, we have lots and lots of photos. And that’s the same one where they were looking for a safety issue on another contractor and they were going through our photos. They’re the guys who are like, hey man, this is great. This will protect you. It makes it easier.
You still have to fill out the paperwork. You have to meet all your notification timelines. We get a 200 page contract for, redoing a front porch. You have to make sure that you follow the rules. This doesn’t solve all of those issues, but it should help you at least build that conversation.
GCs don’t want to go to court either. Nobody wants to go to court. if you can show– and most are reasonable, when you say, hey, look, let’s take a look at what I was dealing with. Can you tell me, did I do something wrong or not? And, and I found that that really frames the conversation in a way.
And photos are objective. There’s no sarcasm with them. There’s no, nothing like that. It’s, it’s, here’s a photo. Here’s the date, time stamp, what, what do you want to do with this? And that’s just one aspect. It’s honestly, it’s not even what we built the software for. It wasn’t until we started using it, we realized how powerful that was.
Clocking in and out, and photo documentation has been the two main things that people buy our software for, neither of which was our real reason for building. We built it to create process checklists in the field for our guys. But now that’s probably, you’re probably a three-month-long customer before we even implement that into your program.
[00:26:06] Wade Carpenter: Well this has been a great. I think we’re probably running out of time here pretty quick, and we can put your information in the show notes where people can contact you, but Chad, do you got any parting thoughts…?
[00:26:16] Chad Gill: Oh, Oh man. There’s many things I have thoughts on, but– some appropriate some not. No, I mean um well, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. I can tell you that we are trying to get out there and let people know that this stuff is out there where, you know, this is not our main business.
It is one of those times where we created something that we built for ourselves. It was selfish, we needed it, we built it. And then now it’s one of those things where you feel like, hey, yeah, I can, I can help people and, have a business at the same time. That’s a, that’s a good, intersection of two things I like to do.
So no, that’s fantastic. I appreciate you guys. You know, listening to your podcast, I get suckered into things, I’m like God, now I’ve got to go get that and I’ve got to do this because everybody’s trying to solve that next headache. And you know, we’re not, like I said, we’re not a silver bullet. We’re just, we’re just one more in the chamber, I guess.
[00:27:04] Rob Williams: All right. Well, thanks, Chad. Thanks Wade for bringing him on.
And we are the Contractor Success Forum with Stephen Brown, McDaniel-Whitley bonding and insurance company, Wade Carpenter with Carpenter and Company, CPAs and Rob Williams, IronGate Entrepreneurial Support Systems.
Go check out Chad Gill in the show notes like Wade said. He’ll help you. He’ll help you guys. I identify with so many of those stories so we could have gone on forever on this. So thanks for coming and come to our next show. Thanks. See you.