Start the new year off strong with Profit First

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The start of a new year is the perfect time to implement the Profit First cash management method in your business. Not sure how to get started? We’re sharing first steps and common mistakes to avoid this week. Join us and start your year off strong.

Topics we cover include:

  • Why the start of a new year is an ideal time to implement Profit First
  • The best way to fast-track implementation and make sure it’s done right
  • The biggest hurdles people face when implementing and how to get past them
  • Common questions about Profit First including around owner’s comp, payroll, and the tax account
  • How to adjust your percentages based on changes in revenue and overhead
  • Lifestyle congruence and how to use it to set meaningful revenue goals


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Rob Williams, Profit Strategist |
Wade Carpenter, CPA, CGMA |
Stephen Brown, Bonding Expert |


[00:00:00] Rob Williams: Welcome to the Contractor Success Forum! Today, we’re discussing Profit First in a new year. What are you going to do? How are you going to do this Profit First in your new year? Because we are the Contractor Success Forum discussing financial strategies for running a more profitable, successful construction business.

And in one corner, we have Wade Carpenter, Carpenter, and Company, CPAs. I threw you off there didn’t I, Stephen? And in the other corner we have Stephen Brown. McDaniel-Whitley, bonding and insurance agency. And in the other corner, I guess, it is Rob Williams with IronGate Entrepreneurial Support Systems. And all of us have over three decades in the construction industry, helping our contractors or being a contractor.

So, today– 

[00:00:58] Stephen Brown: Another year. 

[00:00:59] Rob Williams: New year, new resolutions.

[00:01:02] Stephen Brown: It’s just, it’s just a number on a page, guys. The new year, it’s a number on a page. It doesn’t mean anything. The whole thing about a new year is you got another year to think about what you’re going to do in the next year better than you did the year before. Right? 

[00:01:21] Wade Carpenter: Yeah. 

[00:01:23] Rob Williams: right.

[00:01:24] Wade Carpenter: I think about that old speech, Ronald Reagan was like, are you better off than you were one year ago instead of four years ago, but. When I first got into Profit First about three years ago, I did a bunch of seminars for my own clients. And there’s a lot of people that talk about it, but just in the last month, I’ve had a rash of people coming to me and saying, I want to start the new year. I’ve been thinking about this or I’ve been trying to do it, but I’ve never implemented. I really want to implement it. And so, that’s part of what I want to talk about today. 

[00:01:54] Rob Williams: Yeah. And this is a perfect time to do it, the new year, getting all those accounts set up, get your books closed out in the old year. And you’ve got those recent— well hopefully, it’s still very beginning of the new year. Hopefully you’ve got your financials reasonably close to being finished out for last year so you get some of those numbers and the percentages. And how much can you improve on those percentages? 

[00:02:17] Stephen Brown: Yeah, that is, if you have a December 31st year end, 

[00:02:21] Rob Williams: That’s a good point point too. 

[00:02:22] Stephen Brown: That’s the way you’re thinking. And I’m sitting here as a bond agent going, I’m wondering if my clients talk to their CPAs about tax planning and implementing what they needed to do last year for tax purposes, but hey, that’s water under the bridge right now, isn’t it, Wade? 

[00:02:41] Wade Carpenter: Yeah. It is a new year. We all think about this time of year, what kind of resolutions are we going to make? Are we going to lose weight? We’re going to get healthy, whatever. And when people think about like, how do I build a healthy business? And a lot of times they realize that, I’ve been talking about this for a while and they’re not moving forward. And I just want to talk about a couple of reasons why. 

[00:03:01] Rob Williams: It’s hard to do yourself.

[00:03:03] Wade Carpenter: It is a little bit. We just recently did one on outsourcing. They think, well, I’m tight on money. I could spend the money elsewhere. I can do this myself. And– 

[00:03:13] Stephen Brown: I can do it myself. 


[00:03:15] Wade Carpenter: And then they’d backfires on them. They don’t do as good of a job. So that’s why I wanted to talk about some of the excuses I’ve heard. Not excuses. I’m not trying to belittle anybody. Because it can be a little challenging.

[00:03:28] Rob Williams: Yeah. We, all, most of us, I tried to do it by myself for a year and a half. And then when I finally got, I was like, oh, I get it. There were so many, just little things and you can’t get that out of the book and we can’t really teach somebody because you just got to see what they do. Everybody has little things that are different and it’s kind of a little art. Taking their books and taking their situation and figuring out exactly how you’re going to do that.

[00:03:53] Wade Carpenter: I think that’s a good way to put it. The art of it. Because that’s probably one of the first ones that I’ve heard is they don’t know how to get started because they don’t know what accounts to set up. And they can say, well, okay, well there’s five main accounts that’s in the book, especially if you’re a contractor, you got a couple of other ones I might recommend.

They also look at the book and say, the book says I’m supposed to put this much in profit and this much in tax, and I can’t possibly do that. How can I possibly get there? And it’s just analysis paralysis. They think about it and they don’t know how to move.

[00:04:28] Rob Williams: Right. Well, and the doubt. So many things, even if I was right about it, the fact that somebody reassured me that what my thought was was the correct thought because I may have 10 thoughts and three of them are going to be wrong. The problem is, I don’t know which three are wrong. I need somebody else to– seven things I was right about, but I’m unconfident to move forward about all of them, because I just don’t have somebody to run that by.

[00:05:01] Wade Carpenter: Yeah, absolutely. I know I talk about, I’ve actually got 17 accounts. And people don’t think, well, why do you need all those accounts? But there are some common accounts that I talk about all the time on here. If you’re a contractor and materials and subs are more than 25% of what you do, as far as your total revenue, then you need a separate materials and subs account. 

But there are other things like payroll accounts that are very common that, helps you budget for payroll. But, you know, I think Rob can talk to this too, but setting goals in your business. If you want to pay off some credit card debt or want to buy a big piece of equipment, there’s nothing wrong with putting one or 2% there, and before you know it, you’ve got it paid for. 

[00:05:47] Rob Williams: Yep. And one of the bigger things is the money. I’m speaking from personal experience here, the money will not go to something that you just get a whim on. Because it’s not sitting there. So many times, so many of these decisions, something comes up and you’re like, okay, well I’ve got $50,000 in that account. This is a pretty cool $30,000 piece of equipment or something like that. And you buy it. And then a month later you’re like, ah, man, I bought this. I should have– now I can’t buy this thing that I really needed. And so I really made a bad decision because in that moment for what the knowledge I had, that’s what I did.

And for me being an emotional guy, I’ll see that and I’ll see that and I’ll want it and it makes sense. And it was not in the big picture. I can’t tell you how many things I bought that were– 

[00:06:43] Stephen Brown: Okay. So setting up your accounts properly for Profit First. Yeah, I understand that. We’ve talked about problems of actually managing cash. You’ve got more than you’re used to having. That brings on another skill set of what you have to think about. But for new year’s resolutions, we’re talking about getting started, too. Getting started, just getting started. 

[00:07:09] Wade Carpenter: Yeah. One of the biggest hurdles I see is just picking up the phone or going to your local bank and doing it. I won’t tell you how many people is like, I’d be embarrassed to go in and ask them to set up five accounts at the same time. They’d look at me like I got two heads. Well, I do it all the–

 Yeah. Why should you?

[00:07:29] Rob Williams: Well, that’s great. That’s a perfect example, I know, with me even. I felt that way too, because I felt like I had to justify it. And the poor 25 year old guy that was setting up my accounts, he didn’t care, but I’m sitting there insecurely. I had to tell him about Profit First for 30 minutes. And he’s like, just open the account, man. 

[00:07:48] Wade Carpenter: Yeah. 

[00:07:48] Rob Williams: Open the account. I was not very confident. If I had had a coach, I would have felt better about that because I was trying to justify it to myself. So yeah, getting that new year, get somebody to help you get that moving forward. It’s that doubt. It’s that doubt about not knowing if you’re doing the right thing.

 And I set some of my accounts up wrong too, Wade. Like the owner’s comp account. I thought that was a personal account. I didn’t realize that you have one in your business. So, there are all kinds of little things. Is it checking? Is it savings? What do you do? How much do you expect to do? Because the banker says, no, that’s not right. You can’t have a free account. Who told you that? So you need somebody behind you to figure that out.

[00:08:32] Wade Carpenter: I can tell you, there are definitely banks out there that will give you free accounts. 

[00:08:36] Rob Williams: And then some of them, when is it, if you like your bank, I know there’s one Profit First person that I work with some. She’s an accountant. And one day she was like, oh yeah, this bank, it’s a local bank here. And yeah, they’re free. Well and then six months later, she said, well, yeah, they’re free, as long as you keep a hundred dollars in each account. I was like, whoa, you didn’t give me that detail. So there are little things with different banks. Some banks make you do that. Some don’t.

[00:09:00] Wade Carpenter: Right. Right. And, I also hear the same arguments from bankers as well as, can’t I just put in a bucket in my QuickBooks? And QuickBooks online created that thing to compete with just this envelope system.

[00:09:15] Rob Williams: Yeah.

[00:09:16] Wade Carpenter: And I am here to tell you, and I also saw recently somebody coming out with a banking app that just put it in envelope system. I am here to tell you that does not work. There is something about putting it physically in a different account that has to do with, you get to put it aside and it, you have to actually do something to move it. That’s a barrier to spending that. Doing a spreadsheet, doing a budget, that just does not work. And so you do need to set up these accounts. That’s my point..

[00:09:47] Rob Williams: Yep. Yeah. Cause it’s not an accounting system. It’s a behaviorly based cash management system. Isn’t that a big, fancy, good word?

[00:10:00] Wade Carpenter: The other part, I actually got a call on Monday of this week from a contractor out in Colorado and she had implemented herself, but number one, her accountant said, I don’t want you doing this. This is stupid because they made a complete wreck of their accounting system. And if you’re on QuickBooks online or Xero or something like that, you pull all your banking transactions in and just, the bank feeds, you will make a mess.

You need some order to it, you do your allocations in your account. And then it becomes very simple to reconcile. Very simple to keep up with. But a lot of people don’t know these ins and outs.

[00:10:45] Rob Williams: Yeah, I’m actually curious to hear that. Because mine’s always been smooth on that part and the rest, I guess I got coached in that and I haven’t really seen that happen. For me, going in the right order, saves a lot of time. 

[00:10:58] Wade Carpenter: Exactly. 

[00:10:58] Rob Williams: I didn’t have a process for that. And I was having to think way too much. But then once I had a process to know, you’ve got to do the revenue account first and then you, and that, that’s, that’s my process. I guess somebody else could have. But as long as we did that, then the automation inside QuickBooks works. And if you go in the wrong order, it doesn’t because you’ve–

[00:11:19] Wade Carpenter: Exactly. You kind of hit the nail on the head that you have to do it in a certain order because you start from that income account and then you allocate out. And a lot of people, they start with their OPEX account and they see the money deposit comes in. Well that’s revenue. Well, no, that’s not revenue.

So, that’s one of the biggest things where people make a complete wreck of it. And as well as why a lot of CPAs and other accountants trash Profit First when say it doesn’t work and it creates a huge headache.

[00:11:50] Rob Williams: That’s a good point, because the more you say this, the more things I’m remembering that I did make mistakes on. Especially when a lot of my payments are automatic and they kept going into the operating expense. So those first couple of months I had to constantly move things around until I got it all established, where if I’d had somebody coaching me, they could have said, just go ahead and do it. Get those things to the revenue account, or which one was your main account going to be? Do you leave it as a revenue account or do you leave it as an operating expense account? I think a lot of people, they leave it as an operating expense account, but for me it was actually opposite because I had so much automation going into my revenue account that I left it as the revenue account. 

So you have to look at each situation. You can’t do that in general. Where some people have payments coming out of their operating expense, I didn’t have that. it was easier for me to leave the main account as the revenue account. 

So anyway, more examples of just it’s different for everybody. You’ve got to have some thought in there and if you move forward confidently, you can get this done fast. Fast in the new year.

If you don’t, you’re gonna be like me and waffle around for 18 months and it’s still not going to be right. And for the cost of having somebody to do that, when you could be working on your business for the new year, because it’s a new year, right, Stephen? 

[00:13:11] Stephen Brown: It’s a new year, and having a coach, someone who’s gone through this, someone who’s trained. What kind of training have you guys had on Profit First? Certifications? 

[00:13:21] Wade Carpenter: Yeah. 

[00:13:22] Rob Williams: Both of us are mastery. 

[00:13:23] Wade Carpenter: We’ve gone through, 

[00:13:24] Rob Williams: for, for me it was our our main certification was learning about Profit First and then to get the mastery certification, it was learning how to get other people To do Profit First. So I think the Profit First certification like you can come in and get certified.

And, and I think that’s where a lot of the people actually leave. 

[00:13:46] Wade Carpenter: like a six month whole training to get to the first level. And then there’s a whole training system and tests for the mastery part. And we have to get, I just got recertified for another year the mastery.

[00:14:00] Rob Williams: For me, our main certification was learning about Profit First. And then to get the mastery certification, it was learning how to get other people to do Profit First. So I think the Profit First certification, like you can come in and get certified. And I think that’s where a lot of the people actually leave. And then not all Profit First Professionals stay with their certification. But they, they learn it. 

But then in the Mastery, you get with your mastery group. That’s one of my favorite things. I’ve learned so much by our smaller group. I don’t know, there may be about 80 of us now. It was 40 when I started and it was probably only 20 when you started, or fewer, Wade. And they’re all over the world. So the great thing about it is that everybody’s always asking, I’m on our internal group it’s private just for the mastery members, but we ask questions all the time and we get great answers because we’re always running into something new.

So we get that training not only to go through the material, but then we travel and have a three-day convention. And then we also have smaller groups of coaches just within our, maybe six or eight of us with that. So it’s a constant learning process. 

So we did have to go through all the learning processes of learning Profit First, the different things. But it’s constantly, I don’t want to say it’s evolving, but it’s improving. It’s not really changing. It’s just that we hear new people with new ideas that somebody’s running into some new way for somebody to mess it up.

[00:15:31] Wade Carpenter: Well, a lot of it is, Mastery is a lot about specialization as well as sharing ideas. When I read the book, it’s like, well, hey, there’s five accounts. I get it. Well, once I got into it, I was like, well, there’s a whole new world of thinking about your revenue and your expenses when you really delve into it.

[00:15:49] Rob Williams: Yeah. Yeah. And like construction. You’re talking about specialization, we are different. And that’s probably the most questions that at least I’ve fielded in our group is we have a lot of Profit First Professionals that are not construction-specific. And then they ask us a lot of questions. I know Wade and I have worked with a couple of other profit First Professionals that wanted us to meet with them for an hour or two because they’ve got so many problems with their things cause they didn’t really know construction.

[00:16:18] Wade Carpenter: Well, if it’s okay, let’s move on because I know some of the things that I’m hearing, these people that have come back two and three years later, they have some of the same questions when they’re setting up their accounts. One of them is do I really need an owner’s comp account? And I’m here to tell you, yes, you absolutely do.

They say, well, I’m already on payroll. Well, do you skip a paycheck every now and then when money gets tight? Yes. Are you constantly pushing to push that payroll up, or your profit? Absolutely put your money aside in that owner’s comp. I’m a one man owner and I put it in there and I transfer it to my payroll account every payday. It consciously makes me put that money aside to make sure I’ve always got some money to pay myself.

 I’ve said this many times on this podcast, but I see contractors, their receptionist takes home more money than they do. And it’s really sad. And it’s because they don’t put money aside for themselves.

[00:17:18] Rob Williams: Yeah. And the psychology of that, because we just said it was a psychology system, a cash management system, but it’s. Yeah. It’s things that you don’t do. Yes. You’re paying yourself. But this allows you to realize if the money’s not there, you’ve already taken it out of your operating expense, you realize that you just spent your money.

That’s what problem– it wasn’t about paying myself. It was about not realizing that I was spending the money that I needed for myself, because I had to think through it. So by removing that money and paying yourself first, it’s the inverse of that. You’re not spending your money on something else without realizing it.

You’re going to run out and you’re going to have to transfer it out. And that’s what most people do. They make these decisions. It’s okay, this is a good decision. Well, I need to spend some money. This is a good basic thing for me to buy, because it’s going to make my efficiency better. At that time, they don’t have the information to know that they just spent their own paycheck.

They’re not going to have money to take home anymore. Or they just spent their tax money that they’re not going to have to pay the IRS. So would it have been better to do that productivity improvement, which is a good idea, but maybe paying your taxes is a better idea, so.

[00:18:37] Wade Carpenter: Well, that kind of leads you into the second one that I actually, the tax account is another one that I’ve heard. People get that they need a tax account and they need to put money away, but they don’t know how to use it. And I recently saw one, well, I’ve seen several of them over the years, but you know, they came to one of my seminars.

They tried, they did it themselves, and they were putting away their sales tax money. They were putting away their payroll tax money for everybody. And they don’t get, you know, they look at the 15% or whatever it says in the book, but they don’t need nearly a fraction of that. Number one, that 15% probably based on real revenue. And we won’t go into that right now. But number two is that percentage, if you’re not a sole proprietor, it probably may be four or 5%, after you deduct all the expenses of your total revenue.

[00:19:32] Rob Williams: Yeah. If you’re subbing a lot of stuff out. Yeah.

[00:19:34] Wade Carpenter: That tax account is supposed to be reimbursing the owner for the taxes he has to pay out. 

[00:19:40] Rob Williams: To the federal and maybe state government. Not payroll tax and not sales tax. You said that again. Which is your sales tax is probably a separate account. Another account. That’s not in that same one.

[00:19:50] Wade Carpenter: Well, you know, if it’s material, yeah. You may want to do a separate one and just make sure you got money set aside.

[00:19:56] Rob Williams: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of our contractors don’t have sales tax, so.

[00:20:00] Wade Carpenter: Well, we are into a new year and some of the things I want to talk about as well, looking at my own business, as well as coaching some of these people on, it’s a new year. What, what should I do now? And once you got the system in there in place, well, some people have set those percentages and they’ve never moved them. Rob you got any…? 

[00:20:22] Rob Williams: Oh, definitely. Yeah, this is the time. I’m waiting to get some financials in from a lot of people now, too, so we can readjust their allocations, which we try to do it quarterly. But the annual one, you feel a little bit more confident about these numbers being right. Even though we’re looking at the cashflow part.

It’s a great time to do that. See how we did, how much improvement we did. What are some of the things that maybe we didn’t do what we said we were going to do? We spent some things, still some spontaneous decision-making that maybe we didn’t. 

And I’m looking at the taxes too, because one of the things I’m actually backing up the conversation. I meant to say it earlier. I was just thinking this morning the argument about paying the taxes with this year’s taxes. Are you going to pay with next year’s taxes? A lot of times now you can see, the tax bill is going to be coming up. Is that money sitting there in the tax account or have already been paid to the IRS for now? Or are you still using next year’s jobs to do it? And the CPAs, so many of them, their existence has been on quote, saving you taxes, which means they don’t use the word deferring your taxes to the next year, because some things you’re saving taxes, you’ve got deductions, things like that. But a lot of it is just doing it to where you’re going to pay it next year.

So you can get the interest on that tax, not having to pay it. That’s a dangerous thing for that little amount of interest, especially in this market. You don’t get anything on interest. To know that you’re paying your taxes with the money that you made now and not waiting for next year’s revenue to pay it because next year what’s going to happen when you have a down year? You’re not. You’re really going to get clobbered.

[00:22:14] Wade Carpenter: Yeah.

[00:22:15] Rob Williams: That’s, I’m jumping on the last subject, but that kind of rolled in there.

[00:22:18] Wade Carpenter: I guess I also look at, this time of year, we take a look at last year and has your revenue gone up? Well, is your payroll taking as high a percentage of, or you know, has your overhead gone up as a percentage of your revenue or your real revenue? We talked about this on a recent one too, but looking at it on a real revenue basis, backing out some materials and subcontractors. That’s kind of like, you could do a job this year that’s heavy on materials and skew those numbers considerably. 

I also think about my own situation. Three, four years in, you get to a certain point where you try to adjust these every quarter and it gets harder and harder to find those extra percentages.

Well, this is the time to look at, number one, did your overhead go down as a relation to, can I allocate some more money to profit or some take-home pay? Or did it go up? Do I need to adjust those percentages? As well as, if you’ve got a goal for this coming year, that’s the way I use it.

It’s, hey, I’ve accomplished this. Well, maybe you want to pay off a loan or buy some equipment or start putting money aside for that building. These are the things to think about, and maybe you should be going out and adding some new accounts.

[00:23:33] Rob Williams: Yeah. I was just thinking of some other things that I like to do at this time. One thing: are you growing your business or are you scaling your business? Wade had a great story a couple episodes back about his contractor that tripled his business but his profit went away because he was growing his business without scaling it.

So scaling it, what you really need to look at is growing your revenue without growing your costs as fast. A slower growing, either percent, and hopefully even the percent is going down. Don’t just grow it. 

And then there’s another real big one this time of year is I like to call it lifestyle congruence. It’s a personal goal. Where are you in your personal business? And so I know the way I like to do it is see the money, get an idea personally, what it costs. And if you have all those things, there’s some quicker ways to do it rather than having to detail everything. But how much a month do you really need to have and where do you want to be?

And then I take it– let’s just say you need 15,000 a month, you know, to pay all your stuff. But maybe your goal to fully fund your retirement and fully fund maybe that life insurance policy. Maybe you want to start getting your retirement goals. So maybe it’s not 15,000, it might be 30,000 or 40,000 or 60,000 a month, based on where you are on trying to hit those overwhelming goals.

So whatever that is. So first I like to look at the $15,000. This could be a whole episode, so let’s just quickly go through this. But the 15,000, if you’re in the bracket, maybe where your take-home is 30%. You just divide it by 30%. So, that’s what your revenue needs to be. And then if you want to get to that retirement goal of 50,000, draw that.

So don’t have some round number of $10 million. Your goal for your revenue in your company, if you back this out, so it adds meaning to your money, your number should be something like $9,732,643, because you calculate, it’s got meaning. It’s not just some arbitrary– you see a bunch of zeroes, it’s an ego goal. It’s not a practical lifestyle goal. 

Anyway, that that could be a whole other episode, but that is a huge thing to do at this time of year. How about that? Scale, baby! All right. 

[00:26:07] Wade Carpenter: Stephen, has this helped? As far as like starting a new year, or you got any thoughts on what we’ve said?

[00:26:13] Stephen Brown: It really has. It just hits home with me, not being a Profit First master coach, such as you are that you got to get started. 

[00:26:22] Rob Williams: Yeah, 

[00:26:23] Stephen Brown: Gotta– 

[00:26:24] Rob Williams: There’s Profit– 

[00:26:24] Stephen Brown: –to get started. 

[00:26:26] Rob Williams: And your kind of stuff too, Stephen. This is a good time to look at your insurance policies, things like that. My house just got hit by a tree. And I noticed that after I get this thing rebuilt, I’m going to raise my, that number I’ve had on there has been the same number for 20 years.

It’s oh God, I cannot rebuild this thing. Luckily it wasn’t a total devastation, but I don’t have anywhere close to enough insurance on that. But your businesses, all those things. How many decades have you had that number?

[00:26:54] Stephen Brown: Well, thank you. Your insurance and bonding agent ought to already be worrying about these things. But communicate to them what you’re doing, what you’re planning, what you’re thinking about. 

[00:27:05] Wade Carpenter: Yeah. 

[00:27:05] Stephen Brown: Remember they’re on your team! 

[00:27:08] Rob Williams: Oh yeah, man.

[00:27:09] Wade Carpenter: And if they’re not looking out for you, call Stephen Brown with McDaniel-Whitley.

[00:27:13] Stephen Brown: Hey, thanks for the plug. And call Wade and Rob for Profit First coaching. Getting started for the new year the right way. 

[00:27:21] Rob Williams: All right. So what do they do, Wade,, if they want to find out more about Profit First?

[00:27:28] Wade Carpenter: Well, go to this podcast. We have ContractorSuccessForum.Com, and we talk about a lot of these things. They can contact Rob or myself. I think we have our contact information on there.

[00:27:37] Rob Williams: Yeah, we sure do on And they can look on there, find out, get our contact information. Or go to our websites and, maybe they need help doing an analysis of their situation, how to get started. I think an assessment, I believe that’s what we call it isn’t it, Wade?

[00:27:57] Wade Carpenter: Yeah.

[00:27:57] Rob Williams: So, that’s kind of the starting point. Getting somebody to help you open those accounts, get the assessment so you’ll have some clue where to start. Because you don’t start with the numbers in the book. That will just backfire on you. And I know because I did that. It doesn’t work. So yeah. So contact somebody or find another Profit First person just, just get some help with it. And start your year off right with Profit First.

Well, I appreciate it. And we had a great show. Thanks guys.

And everybody have a great new year and start it off right. And we will see you on the next Contractor Success Forum. All right. Have a great day.

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