How do you decide which projects to pursue? This topic may seem basic for experienced contractors, but if you bid on projects without taking time to consider a defined list of variables and how they could affect your success, you need to listen to this week’s episode.
Topics we cover on this episode include:
- How finding your sweet spot allows you to choose the best projects for you
- Understanding whether a project fits your capacity and capabilities
- The importance of considerations like location, competition, subcontractor availability, and potential risks
- How variable costs and unknown delays can kill a project
- Why you shouldn’t bid every job you come across
Find all episodes and related links at ContractorSuccessForum.com.
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[00:00:00] Rob Williams: Welcome to the Contractor Success Forum! Today, we’re discussing how to select the right projects. Because on the Contractor Success Forum, we discuss how to run a more profitable, successful construction business.
And we are Stephen Brown with McDaniel-Whitley bonding and insurance agency, and we have Wade Carpenter, Carpenter and Company, CPAs. And I am Rob Williams with IronGate Entrepreneurial Support Systems.
So how do we select the right projects and how do we figure that out? Stephen, you see all these things is a bonding guy, man, what do you think about, and what are–
[00:00:48] Stephen Brown: Well, I’m not a contractor. I can’t tell you that answer, but I can tell you what my contractors tell me. And I can tell you when we review the financials at the end of the year, some projects perform better, have a higher profit margin. And other jobs don’t perform as anticipated and we sit down and we break out the reasons why
So as a result of that, I guess you could say, over many years of doing that, we’re kind of an expert, but it is an individual thing. I think all these things that tie into project selection, can be broken down. If there’s anything you should make a list of, it’s probably project selection. You may forget the most simple thing on the list. So you list out those things. It seems to me you’re at least not making a simple mistake when we talk about that. And then on the last episode that we had on the theory of constraints and supply chain, Wade had an analogy of having two different projects with different margins, and how to make that selection. So that kind of threw it into another level to add to our discussion today.
Wade, What were you saying?
How finding your sweet spot helps you pick the right projects
[00:02:03] Wade Carpenter: Well, I think we can maybe talk about that too, but we also had an episode where we talked about the sweet spot. That’s one of our most downloaded episodes, actually. Finding the right sweet spot on your projects. And there’s a lot that goes into it. And I think the theory of constraints part and the time part we can delve into a little bit more in later. But that is definitely another dimension that most people don’t think about.
[00:02:25] Stephen Brown: I think that’s important and I think finding your sweet spot is just as important. And this whole topic may be kind of redundant for contractors that have been around for a long time. Then again, the same things pop up over and over again. The same things that we see in the bonding business on projects just come up over and over again. And this is not new and this is not due to COVID or supply chain. This has been around forever. How do you learn what these things are? Well, you’ve either got a good mentor or someone’s telling you, or you’re learning the hard way. My point for the podcast is making sure that our listeners at least don’t learn things the hard way.
[00:03:05] Rob Williams: Yeah. So I think finding the sweet spot, you know, that’s part of that Pumpkin Plan book, that Mike Michalowicz talks about, which is so closely related to Profit First, which we talk about a lot. And somebody should probably write a book about that in construction.
[00:03:19] Wade Carpenter: You mean–
[00:03:21] Rob Williams: My God. Somebody is! Oh, that’s me. Oh God.
[00:03:24] Stephen Brown: –be you, Rob.
[00:03:25] Rob Williams: Right. The Pumpkin Plan for Contractors. Okay. Sorry, cheap plug there. But yeah, you’ve got that specifically for contractors because when you’re looking for that sweet spot, you find out what makes you unique and get that. What’s so great is, Stephen’s putting the combination in these different areas that he knows to talk about.
And so what’s unique about yourself, and then combine that, which getting your best clients, your ideal clients. Because you still don’t want to go work for an– I can’t say that. Or yeah, wait, we’re not on regular radio– an asshole. Okay. Can I say that? I think it just did.
[00:04:01] Stephen Brown: Well, you want to minimize that. The–
[00:04:03] Rob Williams: -ideal client.
[00:04:05] Stephen Brown: Yeah.
[00:04:05] Rob Williams: You might be good at working with them, so maybe that is your sweet spot. But then you what are your systems? Those are the three things I think about, hey, you have systems in place for that kind of job. It might be a great job and you could be really good at it, but you don’t have the system yet. You don’t have the right tools. You don’t have the machinery or you just haven’t done it yet.
So it might be great down the road. So what’s unique to you. What is your best client? And then systematize that so you can create that perfect sweet spot. But then Stephen has got these lists. All these great things that he has learned in the bonding thing.
Consider the type of project and how it fits with your capacity and capabilities
[00:04:42] Stephen Brown: Well, I’ll go over them. So much of this ties into so many other things that we can talk about. The first thing that’s on the list is the type of project. So, does that fit in with your abilities? Does that fit in with your capacity and your capability? What type of project it is? You know, a lot of times, you do the same project over and over again, and it can get kind of boring. But other times, you get excited by that project to see how you can do it better, how you can find the weakest link, how you can tweak out more profit. That’s the game. But then you’ve got employees that need to be challenged to keep them happy. So what type of project.
Consider the project location
[00:05:26] Stephen Brown: Then the second thing is location. Bond underwriters are always scared if you go to a new territory. Always And rightfully so. There’s a lot of claims based on you popping into a new territory going, oh, I got an angle figured out on them. They’re in there killing it and I can do it for less. And they haven’t gotten there yet and sane all the challenges at that particular territory involves.
[00:05:52] Rob Williams: We did a lot of jobs, especially when things got slow in ’07, ’08 and ‘We did jobs many hours away, and I never got close to estimating all of the extra costs and headaches that came up.
[00:06:05] Stephen Brown: There you go. So,
Don’t bid every job you come across
[00:06:07] Wade Carpenter: Can I jump in real quick, just to make one overview point? Too many contractors, they bid whatever comes along without even thinking about this. And that’s what we were hoping people– what’s that?
[00:06:20] Rob Williams: I think you’re speaking directly to me. I did that. I’d get those Dodge rooms and just bid.
[00:06:26] Wade Carpenter: Well, yeah. And they’ll come in and everybody bids them a lot of times without even thinking. And the point of this whole topic today is, should we even be bidding some of this stuff? Or should we be bidding other things? Do we spend all night and all day working on a bid that we don’t even really want and it’s going to have a low margin?
[00:06:44] Stephen Brown: And I have contractors that bid everything. And I’m thinking to myself at cost you money to bid a job.
[00:06:52] Wade Carpenter: Right.
[00:06:53] Stephen Brown: You think, well, I’ll throw out enough bids, something will stick. I’ll have a high enough profit margin on it, it’ll stick and it’ll be a home run. And maybe that’s the case, but you know, there’s a lot of things to be considered in finding the, not the right project. But you know, like you said, Rob, with the Pumpkin Plan, what is a perfect project?
What’s the project that makes you drool and your employees and everybody wildly happy and excited? Can you picture the ownership group, the architects and engineer? They’re just dream individuals. They communicate, they understand construction, they understand your headaches and they appreciate you. And they brag about you. Wow. You always bring this project in. At the ribbon cutting ceremony all the credit is given to you. This is like a dream project, right guys?
[00:07:43] Wade Carpenter: Yeah.
[00:07:43] Rob Williams: Yeah.
[00:07:44] Wade Carpenter: Yeah. I wanted to kind of make that point because too many people don’t even think about what they’re bidding, but–
[00:07:49] Rob Williams: We used to just go for– oh and we had, I don’t remember, maybe four, five, six salespeople that would go out there and that’s their job just all day. Just find something and bid it. And find something and bid it. And we had a ton of overhead tied up with that, and they’re just trying, and they’ve got these numbers to hit and we had these formulas: how many bids are out there in the bucket and how many– without, we didn’t have enough thought process about qualifying and streamlining that, and getting the right thing. It was just a big game and a bucket to try to satisfy some goal that we had that was not thought out well enough.
[00:08:28] Stephen Brown: All right, the next thing I had on my list was the competition, what’s your competition out there? And you know who is regularly bidding against the projects that you’re bidding. You know who your competition is. And, for one thing, at the bid lettings, you at least see what their unit costs are. What numbers are they using to plug into their bid? And if something’s out of whack, why?
If you have a good competitor and you’re regularly competing against them, then you need to pay attention. They’re beating you for a reason and you need to know what that reason is. But if there’s a lot of competition on a job, you might just say, I’m not going to make the money I want to make on that.
I’m going to bid it because the owners asked me to, but I’m not going to get it. I’m not going to be the cheapest. And that’s kind of sad too. It’s like a necessary evil, but then again, that costs you money. Your relationship with that owner is everything and they’re putting it out to bid.
Consider the constraints of the project
[00:09:25] Stephen Brown: And then the next thing I had on my list was what we were talking about in our last podcast. And that’s the theory of constraints. What constraints does that particular construction project have? Are you identifying those constraints? What is the weakest link potential for this project?
[00:09:44] Wade Carpenter: Yeah, I guess, the focus of that podcast was more on the supply chain too. And you wanted me to talk about the time issue because time is money whether we’re getting it done on time or not, but I kind of raised this the other week, but I think you guys said you had Bath Fitters where you are?
[00:10:01] Rob Williams: Yeah.
[00:10:02] Wade Carpenter: They’re here in Atlanta too. I think they’re nationwide, but they’re a chain and they’ve figured out, like, how do we get a bathroom done in a day? And I don’t really know anything about the company. I know bathroom remodels can be very expensive. But if they can do it in a day, they gotta be making some great money. And we don’t think about it.
[00:10:23] Rob Williams: –cheap. I had a quote from my bathroom. I said, oh my gosh. I don’t think I value doing it in one day that much.
[00:10:31] Stephen Brown: But–
[00:10:32] Rob Williams: Expensive.
[00:10:33] Stephen Brown: You may want to pay that amount, Rob, to get it done in a day.
[00:10:36] Rob Williams: You might. If I had more money than maybe I probably would, but.
[00:10:40] Stephen Brown: Hey, I’ve got a crappy bathroom I need to redo. And I’ve studied it to the nth degree. I watched enough home improvement shows to know that I can really mess this thing up. The good news is the person before me did it themselves.
[00:10:54] Rob Williams: Oh boy. Well, there you go.
[00:10:57] Stephen Brown: Sorry, Wade. Go ahead.
[00:10:59] Wade Carpenter: That was the only point is time is money and, we’ve made some of the points in the other podcasts. You know, those constraints and then whether it relates to, slowing down your project or making money, I think that’s one of the major points you wanted to make there.
[00:11:14] Stephen Brown: Okay. Alright, next–
[00:11:15] Rob Williams: More on that, yeah, just go back and listen to our last podcast on constraints.
[00:11:20] Stephen Brown: Lots of good stuff there.
[00:11:22] Rob Williams: Good stuff.
Find out if your subcontractors are available for the project
[00:11:23] Stephen Brown: And the next thing on my list, you know, are your subs available. And who are your best subs? Your best subs are your most professional subs. They do what they say they’re gonna do. They do quality work and they don’t bottleneck your project. Are those subs going to be available within the timeframe of this job? Well, you’re certainly going to know that because you’re going to get their sub costs from them.
Consider the variable costs of the project
[00:11:44] Stephen Brown: The next thing is, what variable costs are in this project? And we’ve talked about variable costs before. I always use an injury on a job site being a variable cost. Because you say, well, I’ve got insurance for that, but then somebody has to take him to the hospital. And then you’ve got two employees that are not being productive during this injury. That’s a variable cost.
Another variable cost is like a job that one of my customers has down on the river. There’s sturgeon that are breeding right down there in the river and killed the– and sparrows that are breeding on the job site. Well, this was something that was in the job specs. And I said to the contractor, I said, I looked at those specs. I didn’t see that in there. And the specs were 1200 pages long, and it was on page 943 or something like that. So anyway he was totally nonplussed, and they had totally prepared for that variable.
[00:12:37] Rob Williams: Stephen, I also heard that’s right below Beale Street. So I think there are a few tourists and late night overflow that’s been breeding down on those cobblestones.
[00:12:47] Stephen Brown: They’d
[00:12:47] Rob Williams: I think,
[00:12:48] Stephen Brown: –be stumbling right over the–
[00:12:49] Rob Williams: I think there is a little bit, that’s a very popular area.
[00:12:53] Stephen Brown: Yeah, it is. But anyway, I was very impressed and so, variable costs are the little extra things that you just make a checklist, a mental checklist, and then make sure it’s in your bid. And then you’ve got your estimator putting the bid together and you’re checking it over. And the estimator might be really high on a project and you’re not. So, that’s an issue.
Then you’ve got liquidated damages. Rob, I was just telling you the Target right across the street from us had $40,000 a day liquidated damages. That’s how important it was for that contractor to have it done on time, because it was an anchor store.
[00:13:32] Rob Williams: Oh, yeah. Boy, those used to scare me to death. I had one of my good friends, he warned me. He said, you may not want to bid my job because there’s a $10,000 a day clause. And you better be okay with that because I’m coming after you if you’re late. It doesn’t matter that we’re friends, you’re going to have that $10,000 a day liquid damages. And I was like, I almost didn’t bid it.
[00:13:58] Stephen Brown: That’s a beautiful conversation.
[00:14:00] Wade Carpenter: And that’s a conversation for another day too, but Goldratt says in one of his books about, you want the owners to have that. And we could talk about that another day, but you can develop your own competitive advantage by knowing how to manipulate that. So that’s a topic for another day.
[00:14:19] Stephen Brown: Hey, by the way, this general on this Target was helping out the HVAC sub by lifting some equipment on the roof and screwed up and put it through the roof. No stress there. So then the HVAC equipment was ruined, the roof was ruined. They had to order new HVAC equipment and the clock was ticking like crazy.
[00:14:39] Rob Williams: Plus the $40,000 a day cost.
[00:14:42] Stephen Brown: Does your ideal project have $40,000 a day liquidate damage? Well, maybe if you could put an extra $10 million on this project to cover LDs.
[00:14:51] Rob Williams: Right.
[00:14:52] Stephen Brown: Okay. So That’s another topic. All right.
Consider if you have the equipment and labor needed for the project
[00:14:54] Stephen Brown: Do you have the equipment, is equipment available for the job? That’s simple. Labor. Do you have the labor force? How much of your own labor are you going to have to use on this and are they going to be available?
Consider who will be working on the job and whether you work well together
[00:15:05] Stephen Brown: Then also the project oversight, who’s going to oversee this job? What kind of experience do they have overseeing this particular type of project? The design team. And that’s what I call the architects and engineers and everyone else on those blueprints. Everyone that’s stamped on there as official on the blueprints, that’s your design team and they’re your contact between you and the owner and they can be reasonable and they can be unreasonable. You might have a track record with them that you can’t stand. And most people are gonna say, I’m not going to bid a job with that SOB. They’re just, they’re not. Or they might say I’m going to bid it, but I’m gonna bid it with so much money. So, all right. That’s a consideration.
Then we talk about those known and unknown delays. Like the sturgeon breeding Hey, I’ll never forget a job. I was telling you all about this on one of the podcasts, but it was out in California and it was a case study analysis of everything that could go wrong did go wrong on that project. There were political considerations. The project was right between two council people’s territory that hated each other. The grunion were breeding right there on the side. And they were like rabbits. Those grunions were like breeding all year long. And every time they even thought about breeding, they shut the job site down. And then if there wasn’t one thing, it was another.
[00:16:32] Rob Williams: I don’t even know what a grunion is.
[00:16:34] Stephen Brown: It’s a fish.
[00:16:34] Wade Carpenter: Okay.
[00:16:35] Rob Williams: Oh, okay. Got it.
[00:16:36] Stephen Brown: I had to clarify that because you might think it’s like a widget, and–
[00:16:40] Rob Williams: Yeah. Right, right.
[00:16:42] Stephen Brown: Cost accounting. But a grunion is a little fish and you’re like, you know, who cares? Let them breed somewhere else. Well, that’s in the contract and you got to abide by that. So guys, that’s all I had on this. What do ya’ll think?
Get clear on your values and strengths to understand which projects are best for you
[00:16:55] Rob Williams: One thing I’m thinking about when you’re talking about selecting the right projects, how does somebody identify what it is that’s important to them? There are a lot of these projects or what would you call it, a process that people go through to identify what their values are, what their strengths and weaknesses are, and what the trends are.
People think that could be a big waste of time and I’ve definitely been in there thinking, well, why do we want to spend time on doing this stuff? But identifying yourself and studying yourself, and knowing what those are and where are you relative to the other people. So, yeah, we’re talking about selecting the right projects, but if you don’t know yourself, then how are you going to know which things are good or bad?
[00:17:43] Stephen Brown: And how are you going to explain it to the rest of your team?
[00:17:46] Rob Williams: I think a lot of times they call that what your own unique values are and stuff, but take that further. And obviously you don’t want to do something outside of your values. You don’t want to do something if there’s a problem there but I think identifying not just what your list of values are, but what your lists of your strengths, kind of a SWOT analysis, your strengths and weaknesses.
And you’ve got to look outside to know where you are relative, just like he said there, I was really thinking about those liquidated damages. How could that be an advantage? Why would you want a job with liquidated damages? Well, I thought about it, like in our case, maybe there are only two people big enough to be able to absorb it.
Or, I was thinking about capacity. Like for us to bid some of those jobs, there were only two of us big enough to bid the job within six hours because you’ve got to have the capacity, plus a lot more. So you’ve got to have the capacity to move that around in your schedule.
And that’s what we did. You gotta be able to move other jobs around when you’ve got one of those big things. So, but if you know that you can comfortably do that, and this $40,000 a day is just really not going to be an issue because you have that, well, that might be a very great opportunity for you to make more margins and find that sweet job because a lot of other people can’t bid that.
So find out what that is. If you’ve got plenty of crews and you can focus, I think about somebody that has 14 crews. Well, he knows he’s got the flexibility to move four or five over there because 80% of his jobs don’t have those time constraints. So he’s got the ability to rally all the troops and bring in the cavalry to say that.
Can you imagine if you’re doing that and you’re at a hundred percent capacity on one job and that’s all you’ve got, and then something happens and you don’t have those people? Man, I wouldn’t want to be in that position where you’re just watching that $30,000 a day and there’s nothing you can do about it.
So I think bidding the margins.
Consider how the job will affect your cash flow
[00:19:50] Wade Carpenter: That’s a good point. I think we could probably go down another rabbit hole with that one. I’ve got some things to talk about there with strategy. One of the big things, I think maybe we haven’t mentioned that we talk about all the time on here is the cash flow considerations of a job. Does it have retainage or not? Are you waiting on 10% of your money for a year to get it? How fast does that owner or the general contractor pay you? Will you be able to float the job if you have a year’s worth of retainage, things like that. A lot of people don’t even think about that when they go bid a job.
[00:20:24] Stephen Brown: A huge point. It should be on the list front and center.
[00:20:29] Wade Carpenter: Yeah.
[00:20:30] Rob Williams: Yeah. Yeah, because there are some, maybe you have a line of credit set up. We like to talk about Profit First, in doing these things, but on the other side of it, maybe the fact that you’ve got a lot big line of credit could qualify you for some of these really slow paid jobs and you can have the opportunity to make a lot more money.
I know we always say don’t get that slow pay, but maybe that is your competitive advantage. Is your–
[00:20:52] Stephen Brown: You’re right. And then you bid in the cost–
[00:20:55] Rob Williams: –for the contractor.
[00:20:56] Stephen Brown: And you bid in the cost of that money as if it was a job cost.
[00:21:00] Rob Williams: Right, right. Yeah. Cause some people are saying some of this financing can be, especially if it’s got like these credit stuff, these higher interest rates, but man, if you’re making 40% and it gets you the job, well maybe that 8% loan doesn’t sound so bad because you might be the only one that’s bidding it. And like Stephen just said, you make a much higher margin and that could be a hundred times more than the interest that you just paid on it.
[00:21:25] Stephen Brown: That’s a good point, Rob.
Consider the competition
[00:21:27] Wade Carpenter: Just a couple of other real quick points. You mentioned the competition a while ago. And a lot of people don’t think about, is there a lot of competition to bid this thing? And if there is, are the margins going to be so low because everybody’s trying to get that job? A lot of people don’t think about that.
Consider the risk
[00:21:42] Wade Carpenter: And one other point I was going to get in there too, is like the risk of the job. I have a lot of underground utility guys that, they have rock clauses in there. Something’s going to majorly, slow it down and you don’t know about it. That’s one thing you didn’t really talk about is these unknown delays. Those things can kill a project.
[00:21:58] Stephen Brown: That’s right. And you look at the specs and there’s soil engineering report done on that job, but you live there, and that soil engineering report isn’t right. You can get a change order for that. It’s not reported in the specs and it was a hidden connection. It was a hidden issue. I’ve seen that a number of times.
Yeah, all good points guys. And you were talking about your book, Pumpkin Plan for Contractors. I think it’s important everybody know that when you mentioned that, the whole premise of the Pumpkin Plan is that Michalowicz was studying these guys that grew these monster pumpkins for competitions and fairs and stuff. They were freaks. Freaks. Right?
They were obsessed with the best and biggest seeds. They watered them, they studied them, they control the environment. These guys that produce pumpkins as big as a flatbed truck, multiple tons of pumpkin. These guys were freaks and they were absolutely nailing it. And there’s pumpkin’s out there in the patch, you know, cull the weaker pumpkin so the big boys can grow. You know, it’s a pumpkin patch. Everybody goes and wants the biggest pumpkin. Every kid does. Well, anyway, these guys grow in these apartments, they’re just freaks about it. And that’s the whole point of what you’re writing about, Rob. What can make you a freak about–
[00:23:24] Rob Williams: Yeah.
[00:23:26] Wade Carpenter: –term it that way.
[00:23:27] Stephen Brown: Well, no, just getting and keeping the perfect projects in front of you all the time. It’s not like hunting deer where you’re going to get a 12 point every now and then. It’s about positioning yourself to be in front of the right projects all the time.
[00:23:45] Rob Williams: Oh, yeah. And you see it, Stephen. I’m actually jealous a lot of times of your perspective and what you get to see all those jobs and see that. We, as contractors, we don’t get to see as much as you get to see as a bonding agent.
[00:24:00] Stephen Brown: Yeah.
[00:24:01] Rob Williams: It’s amazing, your perspective that you get. And you get to see those that are really doing that. I think a lot of times we don’t believe that’s really happening. It’s kinda like a fairy tale. But there are people that are out there doing that.
[00:24:14] Stephen Brown: Yeah. I’ve got a, like a museum of crap in my office and it’s, you know, a piece of rebar here. It’s a stone here. It’s a piece of– but every one of them has a great story behind it. So you come to my office, you might want to avoid picking something up and asking me about it. But.
[00:24:32] Rob Williams: Yep. Well, this has been a great show. So, I’m trying to think, what can we ask our listeners? Or what can they ask us about something about this show? Because I would love to hear some crazy stories. We’re looking for these crazy stories about what are some of the things that they’ve–
[00:24:51] Stephen Brown: As a listener, if you come in and say, my best project was this, that’s boring and it sounds like you’re bragging. But if you come in and you tell us about what was your worst project and what happened, then we can all sympathize with you. And maybe somebody will learn from what happened to you.
[00:25:07] Rob Williams: Yeah, and specifically on this project, I want to know what are they looking at that makes a job? What are they basing on there? Cause we listed a bunch of things, but what are they thinking about? So tell us what you’re thinking about that makes a job unique for you. What are the right and wrong projects for you? And where can they tell us that? Where can they share this with us, Wade? Know where?
[00:25:31] Stephen Brown: ContractorSuccessForum.com.
[00:25:33] Rob Williams: Right.
[00:25:34] Stephen Brown: And our LinkedIn page,
[00:25:37] Rob Williams: That’s exactly right.
[00:25:39] Stephen Brown: Hey, you found us somehow. You can find our link and go in on LinkedIn, especially, guys, we’d love to hear your feedback.
[00:25:48] Rob Williams: Yeah. Yeah. And leave us a review, which it’s very hard to do that. Leave a comment or review on the podcast itself. If you’re listening on iTunes, you gotta go like all the way down to the bottom and it’s kinda crazy. So leave a big five-star review. If you don’t like us, just go to the next podcast. So.
[00:26:06] Stephen Brown: Hey, either you love us or you suck just, say so.
[00:26:11] Wade Carpenter: The other thing is if you give us a crazy enough story, Rob might quote you in his book.
[00:26:16] Rob Williams: Yeah, that’s right. My–
[00:26:17] Stephen Brown: Wow. You could be famous with that story without naming names.
[00:26:20] Rob Williams: Famous. So I could name a name, or I could make up a fake, crazy name.
[00:26:25] Stephen Brown: I don’t know. It’s all in your hands listeners.
[00:26:28] Rob Williams: That’s right. All right guys.
[00:26:29] Stephen Brown: Don’t make Rob do that.
[00:26:31] Rob Williams: Yeah.
Yes. Give us some great stories. All right. Well, thanks a lot, guys. This is the Contractor Success Forum, and we were talking right here about selecting and finding that right project with the sweet spot. And you can call and talk to any of us too. Stephen Brown, with McDaniel Whitley bonding and insurance agency, Wade Carpenter, Carpenter and Company, CPAs. And I’m Rob Williams with IronGate Entrepreneurial Support Systems.
Thanks for listening to us. And we’ll see you on the next episode.